deficits have nothing to do, because the federal government reduced its deficit. that doesn't mean wal matt is going to go out and hire a bunch of people. they're not connected and we're having this conversation over and over. >> that's the problem with our side. >> i want to get josh in here. >> the usual circumstance in which government borrowing is crowding out private investment and holding back growth is that interest rates rise because governments trying to borrow money at the same time that companies are trying to raise capital, it makes capital more expensive and it makes difficult for people to invest. we're not seeing it right now. interest rates are extremely low, not just in the short-term, but also in the long run. we have extremely low, 30-year interest rates what that reflects is there's not a lot of demand for capital in the private sector. the government could be boosting the economy by borrowing and spending the money itself. and in the future, if, if we see interest rates starting to rides, that will be in part an indication of expectations of i